Participants

Felix Boeschen; Vice President, Corporate Strategy and Investor Relations; Federal Signal Corp

Ian Hudson; Chief Financial Officer, Senior Vice President; Federal Signal Corp

Jennifer Sherman; President, Chief Executive Officer, Director; Federal Signal Corp

Walt Lipick; Analyst; Seaport Global Securities

Christian Zylon; Analyst; Key Bank Capital Markets

Sam Carlo; Analyst; William Blair

Chris Moore; Analyst; CJS Securities

Mike Schlisky; Analyst; DA Davison

Greg Burns; Analyst; Sidoti and Company

Presentation

Operator

Greetings and welcome to Federal Signal Corporation's fourth quarter earnings conference call.
(Operator Instructions)
As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to your host Felix Boeschen. Thank you. You may begin.

Felix Boeschen

Good morning and welcome to Federal Signal's fourth quarter 2024 conference call. I'm Felix Boeschen, the company's Vice President of corporate strategy and Investor relations. Also with me on the call today is Jennifer L. Sherman; our President and Chief Executive Officer, and Ian A. Hudson; Chief Financial Officer.
We will refer to some presentation slides today as well as to the earnings release which we issued this morning. The slides can be followed online by going to our website federalsignal.com clicking on the investor call icon, and signing into the webcast. We've also posted the slide presentation and the earnings release under the investor tab on our website.
Before I turn the call over to Ian, I'd like to remind you that some of our comments made today may contain forward-looking statements that are subject to the safe harbor language found in today's news release and in federal signals filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. These documents are available on our website.
Our presentation also contains some measures that are not in accordance with US generally accepted accounting principles. In our earnings releases and filings, we reconcile these non-gap measures to GAAP measures. In addition, we will file our form 10k later today. Ian will start today with more detail on our fourth quarter and full year financial results. Jennifer will then provide her perspective on our performance, discuss our recent acquisition of Hawk technologies, and go over our outlook for 2025 before we open the line for any questions. With that, I would now like to turn the call over to Ian.

Ian Hudson

Thank you, Felix. Our financial results for the fourth quarter and full year of 2024 are provided in today's earnings release. Before I talk about the fourth quarter, let me highlight some of our full year consolidated results for 2024.
Net sales for the year were approximately $1.86 billion a record high for the company, and an increase of $139 million or 8% compared to last year. Operating income for the year was $281.4 million an increase of $56.9 million or 25% from last year.
Adjusted EBITDA after the year was $350.6 million up $64.6 million or 23% compared to last year. That translates to a margin of 18.8% this year, up 220 basis points from last year. [GAAP] diluted EPFs for the year equated to $3.50 per share, up $0.94 per share, or 37% from last year. On an adjusted basis, we reported full year earnings of $3.34 per share, up $0.76 per share, or 29% from last year.
Orders for the year were $1.85 billion the second highest annual orders in the company's history, contributing to a backlog of approximately $1 billion at the end of the year. For the rest of my comments, I will focus mostly on comparisons of the fourth quarter of 2024 to the fourth quarter of 2023. Consolidated net sales for the quarter were $472 million an increase of $24 million or 5% compared to last year, despite a $7 million dollar headwind from fewer chatty parts through to sales.
Consolidated operating income for the quarter was $70.1 million up $7 million or 11% compared to last year. Consolidated adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was $89.3 million up $11.8 million or 15% compared to last year. That translates to a margin of 18.9%, an increase of 160 basis points from last year. [GAAP] diluted EPS for the quarter was $0.81 per share, up $0.06 per share, or 8% from last year.
On an adjusted basis, EPS for Q4 this year was $0.87 per share, an increase of $0.13 per share, or 18% compared to last year. Orders in Q4 this year were $446 million compared to $465 million in Q4 last year. In terms of our fourth quarter group results, ESG sales were $396 million an increase of $23 million or 6% compared to last year. ESGs adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was $82.9 million up $9.6 million or 13% compared to last year. That translates to an adjusted EBITDA margin of 20.9% in Q4 this year, up 130 basis points from Q4 last year.
ESG reported total orders of $365 million in Q4 this year compared to $399 million last year. SSG's fourth quarter sales were $76 million this year, up $1 million or 1% compared to last year. SSG's adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was $16.4 million of $400,000 or 2% from last year. SSGs adjusted EBITDA margin for the quarter, was 21.6% of 40 basis points from last year. SSG's orders for the quarter were $81 million an increase of $15 million or 23% from last year, primarily due to strength in orders for public safety equipment and warning systems.
Corporate operating expenses in Q4 this year were $10.5 million compared to $10 million last year. Turning now to the consolidated statement of operations, where the increase in sales contributed to a $13.2 million dollar improvement in gross profit. Consolidated gross margin for the quarter was 28.1% of 150 basis points compared to last year.
As a percentage of sales are selling, engineering, general, and administrative expenses for the quarter were up 30 basis points from Q4 last year. During the fourth quarter of this year, we recognized $300,000 of acquisition-related expenses compared to a $1.6 million dollar benefit in Q4 last year.
Other items affecting the quarterly results included a $1.2 million dollar reduction in interest expense associated with lower average debt levels and a $3.8 million pre-tax non-cash pension settlement charge recognized in connection with a voluntary lump sum pension offering to certain participants of our frozen US benefit plan which was completed during the quarter.
Income tax expense for the quarter was $12.9 million an increase of $800,000 from last year, with the year over year changed largely due to higher pre-tax income levels partially offset by the recognition of $1.8 million more in discrete tax benefits in the current year compared to the prior quarter.
Our GAAP effective tax rate for full year 2024 was 18%. That rate included a benefit of approximately $16 million associated with a worthless stock deduction that is not expected to recur in 2025. For 2025, we currently expect a tax rate of approximately 26%, excluding any discrete tax benefits. On an overall GAAP basis, we therefore earned $0.81 per share in Q4 this year, compared with $0.75 per share in Q4 last year.
To facilitate earnings comparisons, we typically adjust our GAAP earnings per share for unusual items recorded in the current or prior year periods. In the current year quarter, we made adjustments to GAAP earnings per share to exclude acquisition-related expenses, pension settlement charges, and purchase accounting expense effects. For the full year, we also excluded the $16 million tax benefit that I just noted.
On this basis, our adjusted earnings in Q4 this year were $0.87 per share, compared with $0.74 per share in Q4 last year.
Looking now at cash flow, where we generated $91 million of cash from operations during the quarter, bringing our full year operating cash generation to $231 million. That represents an increase of $37 million or 19% compared to last year. We ended the year with $133 million of net debt and availability under our credit facility of $574 million. Our current net debt leverage ratio remains low even after accounting for our recently announced acquisition of hog technologies.
With our financial position remaining strong, we have significant flexibility to invest in organic growth initiatives, pursue additional strategic acquisitions like hog, and return cash to stockholders through dividends and opportunistic share repurchases.
On that note, we paid dividends of $7.3 million during the quarter, reflecting a dividend of $0.12 per share, and we recently announced that we are increasing the dividend by 17% to $0.14 per share in the in the first quarter of 2025. We also funded $2.2 million of share repurchases during the quarter.
That concludes my comments, and I would now like to turn the call over to Jennifer.

Jennifer Sherman

Thank you, Ian. Our record setting fourth quarter performance represented a strong finish to a year in which we delivered the highest net sales and adjusted EPS in our history.
Our fourth quarter results included records across consolidated net sales. Adjusted EPS and adjusted EBITDA margin thanks to outstanding contributions from both of our groups. Within our environmental solutions group, we delivered 6% year over year net sales growth. And a 13% increase in adjusted EBITDA with higher production levels, contributions from acquisitions, and continued price realization representing meaningful year over year contributors. ESGs adjusted EBITDA margins, expanded by 130 basis points year over year to approximately 21%.
A new fourth quarter record and toward the upper end of our current target range. As we pointed out in prior calls, we remain focused on raising our build rates for our extended lead time products, namely our sewer cleaners and street sweepers. As such, combined fourth quarter production at our two largest facilities rose 5% year over year, primarily led by improved sewer cleaner production. From a capacity perspective, our access to labor remains good.
Supply chain fluidity has improved, and our large scale capacity expansions that we completed between 2019 and 2022 position us well to profitably absorb incremental volumes into our existing footprint.
Shifting to aftermarkets, demand for our aftermarket products and services remained strong as revenues grew 2% year over year, driven by strong performance in parts revenue and rental income. In aggregate, aftermarket represented approximately 26% of ESG revenue in Q4 this year compared to around 27% in Q4 last year. Our other vehicle based businesses also contributed positively to results. For example, our road marking businesses achieved 34% year over year net sales growth on the back of broad-based strength across our product.
Driven by healthy and market demand and continued market share expansion efforts. Similarly, our dump truck body businesses continued their momentum in the quarter with net sales growth of 29% year over year. Our industry leading lead times, expansive product offerings across various brands, reputation for high quality products, and geographic expansion efforts at our ox bodies and rugby businesses are all resonating positively with customers.
Shifting to our safety and security systems group, the team delivered another solid quarter with 1% top line growth, a 3% increase in adjusted EBITDA, and a 40 basis point improvement in adjusted EBITDA margin. This improvement was primarily driven by a combination of price realization. And efficiency gains as I will address in more detail, we were particularly pleased with SSG's order intake in the quarter and believed this team has strong momentum heading into 2025. Lastly, we had another strong quarter of cash conversion with $91 million of cash generated from operations. For the full year, our cash conversion was 107% ahead of our annual target of 100%.
Shifting now to current market conditions, demand for our products and aftermarket offerings remained strong, with our fourth quarter order intake of $446 million representing the second highest fourth quarter on record. Lower chassis pass through orders and the impact of the standard acquisition represented a combined $8 million year over year headwind to reported orders in the quarter. In comparison to the record order intake in the prior year quarter, orders were down 4% primarily due to lower orders for long lead time item products such as street sweepers and sewer cleaners where backlogs stretch well into 2026.
In fact, excluding street sweepers and sewer cleaners, our total fourth quarter orders increased by approximately 13% year over year with notable demand for dump truck bodies, road marking and line removal products, public safety equipment, and our aftermarket offerings.
In an effort to reduce current street sweeper and sewer cleaner lead times, our teams remain laser focused on building more trucks while maintaining a healthy order intake.
We have recently announced the acquisition of Hog technologies for an initial purchase price of $78 million an additional $14.5 million for its primary manufacturing facility in Stewart, Florida. Hog Technologies is a leading manufacturer of truck mounted road marking line removal, and water. The equipment with exposure to infrastructure, airports, and municipal and markets both in the US and internationally. Hag has established itself as a leading innovator in the road marking space primarily due to its deep product expertise, technology leadership, and strong customer service.
We are particularly excited about this acquisition as Hog provides a natural extension of our road marking and water blasting businesses with a highly complementary product portfolio that significantly increases our reach into historically under penetrated airports and international markets, which Represented approximately 40% of hog's equipment sales in 2024.
Strategically, the road marking and line removal space represents a non-cyclical essential service that we believe has secular tailwinds from the adoption of various autonomous-based vehicle solutions that rely on accurately and routinely striped roads irrespective of road construction activity.
In addition to shared product development expertise and a broadening of product offerings geared to best serve our customers, we also see opportunities to further grow our water blasting business Jetstream, which has long provided equipment to hog.
Moreover, similar to our other recent vehicle-based acquisitions such as Trackless, Ground Force, or Towhaul, we see several multi-year synergy opportunities spanning channel alignment and cross-selling opportunities for other federal signal products, procurement savings, supply chain optimization, and further expansion of hog's aftermarket parts and service business, which represents roughly 35% of hog's net sales today.
Lastly, why hog's current EBITDA margins are slightly below ESG's margin target range of 17% to 22%, we anticipate Hog will operate within our margin target range by 2026 as initial synergies take hold as we execute on synergy opportunities. For the partial year of ownership in 2025, we anticipate Hogg to contribute between $50 million and $55 million in net sales. I expect the acquisition to be creative to cash flow and EPS, inclusive of a preliminary estimate of intangible asset amortization expense.
Before I provide more detail on our outlook for 2025, I want to spend a moment explaining our multi-year diversification strategy that we initially put into place in 2016 with the intent of muting earnings volatility through cycles. At a high level, roughly half our sales are tied to some sort of public funding mechanism, while the other half is sold to various industrial customers, which includes minor utility and oil.
Gas exposure on a more granular level, our publicly funded exposure can be dissected into several important categories with local water taxes representing the single largest individual funding mechanism, primarily supporting purchases of our sewer cleaner products.
While local US water taxes represents the single largest funding mechanism and aggregate, that funding mechanism supports less than 15% of total net sales. Other forms of publicly funded mechanisms include US municipal budgets, local and state police budgets, Canadian local and provincial budgets, European federal, state and local budgets, and US federal funds.
US federal funds primarily support our military dump truck businesses with an ESG and certain federally funded warning system sales with an FSG. In total, we believe our direct US federal exposure to be less than $10 million per year of total net sales. Further, given the essential nature of our products and associated high utilization levels through business cycles, the build out of our aftermarket ecosystem, which today represents 26% of ESG's net sales compared to less than 10% prior to 2016.
Has been an important strategic pillar in our efforts to mute cyclicality. We expect to see further aftermarket growth in 2025. In short, we are not reliant on any one specific funding mechanism. Customer cohort or product category and continue to strategically pursue organic and inorganic growth initiatives that accelerate our strategy of manufacturing essential high quality specialty vehicles and safety equipment that moves material, cleans infrastructure, and keeps our community safe.
With that said, in the fourth quarter, industrial orders rose double digits year over year, while publicly funded orders declined double digits year over year. On the industrial side, orders for road marking equipment, dump truck bodies and trailers, industrial vacuum trucks, and water blasting equipment all rose meaningfully.
We are particularly excited about the continued execution of our geographic expansion initiatives within our dump truck body and trailer businesses, which saw Q4 orders rise by a combined 27% year over year. As we head into 2025, we see further opportunity to capitalize on healthy and market demand. On the publicly funded side, orders for our domestic public safety equipment increased double digits with orders for police products leading the charge.
Our domestic public safety group continues to execute on market share initiatives and has successfully decreased lead times to pre-COVID levels, which has fueled a re-acceleration in orders. Within the ESG segment, we continue to find new ways to expand our competitive advantage and harness the power of our growing specialty vehicle platform as we aim to unlock future growth opportunities in excess of [unmarket] growth rates through operational excellence and best in class customer service.
Specifically, we see incremental opportunities to align sales channels across our platform of businesses. We are also further accelerating the roll up of our federal signal operational system, driving increased aftermarket penetration across our vehicle-based businesses and planning to. Accelerate new product launches as supply chains have stabilized across our ESG and SSG segments.
As a result, we continue to see room for further margin expansion across both segments and expect EBITDA margins to improve year over year in 2025. Moreover, as outlined in our last earnings call, we see opportunities to proactively address areas of untapped share opportunity within our exclusive dealer channel. As a reminder, our exclusive dealer channel primarily serves certain municipal product lines, including sewer cleaners, street sweepers, and municipal maintenance tractors, and it accounts for approximately 30% of total net sales.
As part of that strategic alignment process, we are transitioning our relationship with a long standing dealer partner with primary coverage across several Midwestern states to other qualified parties. Specifically, we are in the process of reassigning these territories, and we've received extremely strong indications of interest from 10 outside qualified third party entities including a mix of current federal signal dealers and others who currently represent other OEMs.
The level of interest in assuming the rights in these territories is a testament to the strength of our brands. And the growth opportunities that lie ahead, we expect to announce the recipients of these territories by the end of the first quarter. Although this transition had a minor adverse impact on the comparability of our Q4 orders and may further impact comparisons in Q1, we anticipate long term benefits in the form of market share expansion across both new equipment sales and aftermarket revenue capture in those territories.
We are also closely monitoring the ongoing potential for tariffs on internationally sourced products. As a reminder, our supply chain is predominantly US centric, with only $30 million of direct purchases sourced from Mexico, Canada, and China. Nonetheless, we're exploring several mitigation strategies internally, including alternative domestic sourcing opportunities were available and our price increases. Lastly, our M&A pipeline remains very active across both our ESG and SSG groups.
Turning now to our outlook, our current backlog provides excellent visibility well into the first half of 2026 with the ongoing execution against our strategic initiatives. We are confident that we will have another record year in 2025. For the full year, we are anticipating net sales of between $2.02 billion and $2.1 billion, double digit improvement in pre-tax earnings, and EBITDA margin performance in the upper half of our target.
We are also currently expecting to report adjusted EPS of between $3.60 and $3.90 per share for the year, which is a midpoint would represent another year of double digit growth and the highest adjusted EPS level in company's history. Given that seasonal effects typically result in Q1 earnings being lower than subsequent quarters due to less aftermarket revenue capture, we are currently expecting Q1 to represent between 19% and 20% of our full year earnings, roughly in line with last year.
The combination of continued healthy demand for our new equipment, parts and aftermarket services, and excellent visibility with a strong backlog gives us confidence in our ability to deliver another year of record results in 2025. Lastly, we expect capital expenditures to be between $40 million and $50 million for the year.
In closing, I want to express my profound thanks to our employees, suppliers, dealer partners, stakeholders for tremendous 2024. With an active M&A pipeline, ongoing investment in new product development, large backlog available capacity and execution against our strategic initiatives, we are well positioned for long term sustainable growth. With that, we are ready to open the line for questions operator.

Question and Answer Session

Operator

Thank you. (Operator Instructions)
My first question comes from Walt Lipick with Seaport Global Securities. Please proceed with your question.

Walt Lipick

(multiple speakers)
Hey, good morning guys, great year loved all the records for 2024.

Jennifer Sherman

Thank you Walt.

Walt Lipick

So I wanted to ask sort of a question that you addressed, in your open topics about just municipal spending. And, big cities, I think their budgets are changing as a result of the administration change. And, you addressed a number of these things, and I know that safety and security are always top of the list for spending for big cities, but I wonder if you could talk a little bit about just the health of the big cities and your exposure to big cities versus, smaller local governments.

Jennifer Sherman

Yeah I think you know if we look back on history, I think it's important to understand is kind of first of all the essential nature of the equipment that we produce. I would also point to the water taxes which have been rising over the last, 10+ years, that funds sewer cleaners.
And then the overall, we talked on in my prepared remarks about the strength in SSG US police orders which were up 32% year over year so the other thing I would talk about is as a company when we talk about kind of the diversification of revenue streams as we've talked about before, particularly in our police business we've undergone, the development of a good better best product strategy, and so our reliance on major cities today for that business is much less than it's been historically.
So overall we believe that given the diversification efforts, the strength we're seeing in police, the water funding mechanisms, the strength we're seeing in dump truck orders that we're very well positioned for 2025.

Walt Lipick

Okay, that sounds great and I wonder if you could also talk a little bit more about the pricing strategies for this year and around tariffs. Some of the the material prices are moving up. Are, do you have the flexibility of raising prices as the year goes on if tariffs start to, create more inflation.

Jennifer Sherman

Yeah, I think a couple things are critical, we've locked in, for ESG businesses, our raw material input for the vast majority of the year and we feel like we're well protected there with respect to tariffs. Again, I would remind you that our direct spend is, outside of the US $30 million so it's a relatively small portion, if we were to receive tariffs on chassis, those are typically passed through and we would pass those expenses on, we're typically, through inflationary times if you look at past practice.
We've performed well, because we're, because of the essential nature of our equipment, we're able to pass on those costs as necessary to the end customer, and I would add, as I mentioned in my prepared remarks that we're exploring several, mitigation strategies now in terms of looking at alternative suppliers that are domestically based.

Operator

Our next question comes from Steve Barger with Key Bank Capital Markets.

Jennifer Sherman

Good morning Steve.

Christian Zylon

Good morning guys. This is actually Christian Zylon for Steve Barger.
Thank you for taking the questions.

Jennifer Sherman

Yes, absolutely, good morning.

Christian Zylon

First question, could you quantify or just give us a sense of how much rental fleet growth was in the quarter and how should we think about that for 2025 given the standard acquisition and along with hog?

Ian Hudson

Yeah, so there wasn't, aside from the obviously the acquisition of standard, they had a rental fleet that came with the acquisition. So aside from that, there wasn't too much of an incremental investment in the fleet. Much of that was earlier in the year, I think part of the strategy is that we We typically would add equipment to the fleet so that it's in the fleet ready for kind of peak season, which typically is in the summer months as we look into 2025, I think it is, we start the year with a certain amount that is earmarked for us to add to the fleet.
That is something that on a monthly basis. We, myself, Jennifer, and the whole team monitor kind of additions to the fleet really tracking utilization by product line by geography, so we can pivot if we need to, and that's one of the advantages of being the manufacturer of the equipment that goes into the fleet. So that's the strategy, there is obviously a certain amount that is earmark to go into the fleet.
It is. I would say it's about the same level as it was in 2024, that also assumes that we have strong used equipment sales that we've seen, throughout the last couple of years as well so. That, that's kind of the majority of the business. The other point you asked about hog that really has no rental business, so, hog is a manufacturer of equipment that is sold almost directly to end customers. It also has an attractive aftermarkets business, but that aftermarkets piece isn't rental, it's primarily parts.

Christian Zylon

Got it, thank you. If I could just follow up on that, so I guess the quarter over quarter margins stepped down on equal, more or less revenues, is that just mixed driven? Was that like a seasonal step down? Can you just give a little more insight into kind of that [100,10] basis point step down or so? Yeah.

Ian Hudson

It's predominantly mixed and when you think about the aftermarket business, there is a lot of, there's a lot of work that takes place in the summer months when the weather is good. We typically see that step down a little bit and although the top line was the same, there were some mixed effects there.
I think the other thing to note in Q4 is just the impact of some holidays or vacations, I should say, just with the holidays and when the calendar fell, it was, there was a lot of holidays midweek and so there was probably a higher amount of absenteeism than we might have expected in Q4.

Christian Zylon

Got it, thank you. And then second question, have you made headway on lead times for most popular products? I guess what are the lead times across the board and what is your target?
Thank you again.

Jennifer Sherman

We've made headway with respect to sewer cleaners while maintaining, if you look back through 2024 healthy demand.
The progress we've made, headway with respect to our three wheel Pelican street sweeper, with respect to our four wheel line, we did not make the progress that, we had hoped in Q4, as we've talked about in previous calls we engaged a third party, we are in the process of making some fundamental changes. To that business in terms of, increasing production, long term with respect to lead times, sewer cleaners were into the first half of '26, and street sweepers were into the second half of '26, so that does give us kind of excellent visibility through those time periods.

Operator

Thank you again. Our next question comes from Ross Bornblack with William Blair. Please proceed with your question.

Jennifer Sherman

Morning, Ross.

Sam Carlo

Morning Jennifer. This is Sam Carlo on for Ross. Thanks for taking my question. With extended lead time significantly impacting orders for sewer cleaners and street sweepers, are you at all worried about share loss or the potential for distributors to switch to other equipment suppliers?

Jennifer Sherman

Yeah I think it's something that we watch very carefully and you know one of we have many tools in our toolbox to address particularly through our aftermarket platform so a couple things that we're able to do one is we can offer rentals, we can offer used equipment we also can offer the opportunity to move people up in the queue when we need to.
I would remind you that this is a municipal product, that's gone through, some type of public bid process, so typically you're replacing existing pieces of equipment, so it is not an impulse buy and there are expectations that'd be longer lead times but that being said again we are razor focused on improving lead times. I mean reducing lead times and increasing production rates, we made some nice progress at factor, still more work to be done at Elgin.

Sam Carlo

Got it. That's helpful. And then is there anything to call out regarding your CapEx guidance of $40 to $50 million? If I recall correctly, this is above the normal run rate of 30 to 40 that you've spoken to in the past.

Ian Hudson

Yeah, yes, Sam, this is in there's an investment that we're looking to make into our, it's really the mineral extraction business, the combination that is a ground force and [toeh] just from a manufacturing standpoint. That based on kind of the demand that they've seen, they're looking to add some capacity there, so that would be something that would be baked into that guide so it's probably, a little that that guide does include the impact of that, investment that we're going to make.

Sam Carlo

Got it. And then one last one from me. You mentioned you saw I think 34% growth in the road marking business in the quarter had, hogs seen similar levels similar levels of growth, before you had acquired them.

Ian Hudson

Yes. And Samhog also has a bit more of a different type of exposure in terms of airport exposure and international exposures, but at the same, by the same token, they have also seen strong growth in 2024.

Jennifer Sherman

And if you look at that road marking platform of businesses now Hog, MRL, and blasters, they're very well positioned for a strong 2025.

Sam Carlo

Got it thanks.

Operator

Our next question comes from Chris Moore with CJS Securities. Please proceed with your question.

Chris Moore

Hey, good morning guys. (multiple speakers)
Good morning. Yeah, maybe at the midpoint of the guide it looks like I'm looking at this maybe 7.5%, organic growth, just trying to get a sense in terms of, price versus volume in there.

Ian Hudson

Yeah, I think, Chris, it's what we've guided is similar to kind of our experience the last couple of years. I think if you look at the the organic growth that we had in 2024, price was about 2.5% of the overall organic growth that we had in 2024. I think we'd expect something similar in in terms of, the guide for 2025. And and all of that is in line with kind of a long term framework where we we target that low double digit top line growth.

Chris Moore

Got it. I appreciate that, Jennifer, you talked about transitioning some territories on the distribution side. I'm just trying to, I want to make sure I understand these relationships are normally very long term and is the potential for, more conflicts with distributors is that greater than it was a few years back or is you know any meaningful thoughts there?

Jennifer Sherman

The first thing I want to emphasize is that you know we've had a very strong interest from existing dealers that we have, long term histories with and the territory will be divided up among a number of primarily outside third party entities. They'll start there, and it's really more about kind of strategic alignment. And ensuring that, we optimize and drive kind of the market share expansion opportunities that we have.
We started our dealer development programs. eight years ago and you know we've become, we hold our dealers to very high standards. These are coveted territories. And we will continue to do so going forward because we think it's absolutely critical. It's a valued opportunity given its demonstrated by the interest that we've had in these particular territories, and you know we're going to continue to expect outstanding performance by those dealer partners, and I'm confident that we'll get there.

Chris Moore

Got it. I appreciate that. Maybe just the last one cash flow was operations was very strong '24 after after a good '23. Just any thoughts in terms of, how you're looking at for '25.

Ian Hudson

Yeah, I think similar to our long term targets, Chris, 100% cash conversion on a net income basis we're actually a little higher than that, for the full year of '24. I think we're 107% in '24, but nothing fundamentally has changed there. it's relative it'll be consistent with our expectations are to be consistent with our long term target 100% cash conversion.

Chris Moore

Got it. I appreciate it guys. I will leave it there.

Jennifer Sherman

Thank you.

Operator

Our next question comes from Mike Schlisky with DA Davison. Please proceed with your question.

Jennifer Sherman

Morning Mike.

Mike Schlisky

Good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. I want to follow up with some of the comments you just made on the, transition in the Midwest for your distribution.
I guess maybe it's a two-part question. First, is there any organic growth headwinds for 2025, first of all, at all? And then, secondly, if and when you find the new people to take over the territory, is there any kind of ramp up or learning curve, either they have to build new footprints, or is there training for service and technicians and inventory acquisitions? Just kind of getting a feel for how this changeover might take place in the length of the potential disruption in those handful of states.

Jennifer Sherman

Yeah, so a couple comments. One, just to kind of ground the conversation again we're talking about a small portion of that 30% of federal signal that goes through exclusive distribution.
We, as I mentioned in my prepared remarks, we've had 10 parties that are passionately interested in this territory, the majority of them being existing dealers that currently sell our products that would geographically expand into these areas.
Several of them already have bricks and mortar. In these particular territories for either other federal signal products or other products that they represent, so we believe that they will hit the ground running, we talked about that, this transition was about a $13 million dollar order headwind and Q4 we expect that, there could be a minor issue in Q1. We are in the middle of, interviewing and vetting the proposals that have been submitted to us. And we are highly confident that we will transition these territories in the next by the end of Q1. We believe longer term that this will provide growth opportunities for federal signal as we move forward.

Mike Schlisky

Great. Thanks for that color, Jennifer. I appreciate it. I want to turn to hog quickly as well. Does that business. Resemble the dump fight in a way and that's very, it's very regional. I guess I'm kind of curious whether the Florida, location is a big part of the synergy here given that [Markr] is in Montana.

Jennifer Sherman

Yeah, no, it's not, a regional business in terms of the equipment manufacturing, this particular business, 20% of the equipment sales are international, 20% of hog's equipment sales are to domestic airport customers.
We talked about the strong 35% is parts. And this really if you look at our platform of road marking equipment businesses, it really fills in some critical holes, both in terms of technology and market customer exposure. So, we're really pleased about this particular acquisition we've been working on this acquisition on and off, for 10+ years.
And we believe, that this will provide longer term kind of a meaningful part of the growth of that road marking platform this group of businesses.

Mike Schlisky

Got it. Thanks for that. Maybe one last one for me. I just want to get a little more granular thoughts on the margins for each of the segments for 2025. I was wondering, obviously there's one bigger segment than the other from a dollar perspective, but does one segment have any more potential from a margin perspective for expansion in 2025 than the other, or do they both seem pretty well positioned, in your opinion?

Ian Hudson

I think they both have potential to increase margins. I think if you think about the the guide, I think we are expecting overall across the company we're expecting year over year improvement in the EBITDA margin, and I think there's there's growth, there's potential in in both of the segments to improve margins.

Mike Schlisky

All right. I'll leave it there. Thank you so much.

Operator

(Operator Instructions)
Our next question comes from Greg Burns with Sidoti and Company. Please proceed with your question.

Jennifer Sherman

Morning Greg.

Greg Burns

So just another following up on the the dealer development programs. I think you've also taken over, direct, or moved your direct operations maybe into certain territories, so what are the, when you look at your dealer footprint, are you expecting to do other similar transition deals like you mentioned, today in the in the Midwest or you know maybe moving your direct sales force and taking over, territories.

Jennifer Sherman

So again you know we're talking about the 30% of our business that goes through these exclusive dealer, this exclusive dealer network with respect to the situation that I discussed on the call, the vast majority of those territories will be going to, third parties and the vast majority of that, will be, entities that are very familiar with our product categories.

Greg Burns

Okay, and when you look at what you're hoping to accomplish there is it really about accelerating sales of those core, like sewer cleaners? Street sweepers or are you looking to. Sell more of your product line through that channel to the municipalities like maybe don't dump truck bodies or other things, is that part of the goal here of this transition?

Jennifer Sherman

Overall the transition really is focused on increasing market share and increasing aftermarket sales. As we move forward, as there are also also opportunities as we acquire new product lines, and a great example would be Trackless. So you know we have the Elgin factor and you know in many situations we're combining the trackless opportunity with that.
Because of the shared and customer between for example Algin track list is typically streets and sanitation department so you know we're committed to helping those third party dealers grow sales of our products.

Greg Burns

Okay, and then in terms of the lead times, on the sewer cleaners and street sweepers, what is the biggest bottleneck because you obviously have the capacity, but what are the major bottlenecks to really ramping up production?

Jennifer Sherman

Yeah, so with respect to sewer cleaners, the rate of increase was higher than that at our Elgin team. Our Elgin team worked diligently, as we talked about, we launched our federal signal operational model there with the assistance of a third party. We're in the process of making some fundamental changes. To that business with the goal of, increasing production on a sustainable basis long term.
And candidly at Elgin it's taking longer than we thought given some of those kind of fundamental changes that we're making in terms of both how we set the lines up in terms of how we bring materials to the line, so you know I feel encouraged by the steps that we're taking but more work needs to be done. At [Alton] in particular.

Operator

Okay, thank you. We have reached the end of the question and answer session. I'd now like to turn the call back over to Jennifer Sherman for closing comments.

Jennifer Sherman

In closing, we would like to express our thanks to our stockholders, employees, distributors, dealers and customers for their continued support. Thank you for joining us today and we will talk to you next quarter.

Operator

This includes today's conference.
(Operator Instructions)