Participants

Tracy Moran; Senior Investor Relation Manger; Impinj Inc

Chris DiOrio; Chief Executive Officer, Vice Chairman, Director; Impinj Inc

Cary Baker; Chief Financial Officer; Impinj Inc

Blayne Curtis; Analyst; Jefferies

Harsh Kumar; Analyst; Piper Sandler

Jim Ricchiuti; Analyst; Needham & Company

Troy Jensen; Analyst; Cantor Fitzgerald

Christopher Rolland; Analyst; Susquehanna

Scott Searle; Analyst; Roth Capital

Presentation

Operator

Welcome to Impinj fourth quarter and full year 2024 financial results conference call and webcast. (Operator Instructions)
Due to Mr. Andy Cobb's [laryngitis]. I would now like to turn the conference over to Miss Tracy Moran, Senior Investor Relations Manager. Please go ahead.

Tracy Moran

Thank you, Nick. Good afternoon and thank you all for joining us to discuss Impinj fourth quarter and full year 2024 results.
On today's call, Chris Diorio, Impinj co-founder and CEO will provide a brief overview of our market opportunity and performance. Cary Baker, Impinj CFO will follow with a detailed review of our fourth quarter and full year 2024 financial results and first quarter 2025 outlook. We will then open the call for questions.
Andy Cobb, Impinj Vice President of Strategic finance will join us for the Q&A. Hussein Mecklai who normally joins us, unfortunately, has the flu. So cannot be here today. You can find management's prepared remarks plus trended financial data on the investor relations section of the company's website.
We will make statements in this call about financial performance and future expectations that are based on our outlook as of today. Any such statements are forward-looking under the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995.
Whereas we believe we have a reasonable basis for making these forward-looking statements. Our actual results could differ materially because any such statements are subject to risks and uncertainties. We describe these risks and uncertainties in the annual and quarterly reports we file with the SEC.
We do not undertake and expressly disclaim any obligation to update or alter our forward-looking statements except as required by law. On today's call all financial metrics except for revenue or where we explicitly state otherwise are non-GAAP, all balance sheet and cash flow metrics except for free cash flow are GAAP.
Please refer to our earnings release for a reconciliation of non-GAAP financial metrics for the most comparable GAAP metrics. Before turning to our results and outlook note that we will participate in Susquehanna's 14th annual Technology Conference on February 27 in New York, the Cantor Global Technology Conference on March 11 in New York and the 37th Annual Roth conference on March 18th in Dana Point.
We look forward to connecting with many of you at those events. I will now turn the call over to Chris.

Chris DiOrio

Thank you, Tracy and thank you all for joining the call.
2024 marked our fourth consecutive year of double-digit revenue growth. And another yearly revenue record underlying that growth was market strength and retail apparel, general merchandise and supply chain and logistics. Our financial unit volumes grew 34% over 2023.
Our top line growth combined with strong operating leverage and our favorable litigation settlement drove record annual adjusted EBITDA and free cash flow. 2024 also ushered in two major market catalysts.
First startup item level, [foodtech], second [Impinj Gen2X] which dramatically expands the landscape of enterprise solutions. We and our partners can deliver, the long term secular tailwinds underlying our industry remain strong and our leadership position in it is as strong as ever that said we faced headwinds at the end of the fourth quarter that will spill into first geopolitical uncertainty and tariffs and users changing label partner share allocations, aggressive label, price shopping and shorter ordering cycles, disrupted partner bookings.
First quarter impact includes some partners having extra end point. I see inventory and asking us to reschedule orders. Compounded by no large new programs ramping in first half, 2025 we cannot sustain our prior 34% and implement C unit volume growth pace in the first quarter.
So, our focus is helping our inlay partners clear a few weeks of inventory and together navigating the geopolitical and tariff landscape.
And through it all using our best-in-class products. Enterprise solutions leadership and [Gen2X] to regain momentum and increase market share. As we accelerate out of a disappointing first quarter. For 2025 we continue to anticipate solid industry, RAIN label expansion driven by growth in retail apparel, general merchandise and supply chain and logistics buoyed by modest but growing food volumes.
Recent conversations with our enterprise and service bureau partners suggest that US retail demand is solid. US demand for RAIN labels is healthy and growing in the EU if not growing is at least stable.
Our E-family reader IC order book is strong across all large partners and geographies bullying our belief that our first quarter end point I see headwinds are temporary. Turning to solutions, today we are directly engaged with two large grocery chains, one focused on perishables and the other on seamless self-check in imagine grocery checkout as easy as today's apparel checkout at our visionary European retailer.
In terms of potential endpoint IC volumes both are larger than any program that has come before and in terms of the overall opportunity, food is huge. One, if not both of these enterprises may ramp in 2026.
In general merchandise the large North American retailers, multi category rollout continues with compliance increasing quarterly and room to grow in 2025 in supply chain and logistics. The second large North American end user increased their label volumes in 2024, and we expect modest growth in 2025, as they continue their autonomous reading journey.
Using our E-family reader ICs, the visionary European retailer, ongoing rollout of our self-checkout and loss prevention solution grew in the fourth quarter, driving strong gateway revenue but will decline in the first quarter as that program completes successfully. That said our opportunity in new RAIN based use cases with them is far from over including their ongoing embedded tagging ramp.
In addition to our direct engagements, we have partners using our E-family reader ICs and [GEN two X] to expand existing use cases like loss prevention and enable previously challenging use cases like always on overhead reading in retail stores, those partner engagements further expand our platform's footprint and create multiple in what I see, share gain opportunities for us.
Our December launch of [Gen two X] was a bellwether event for our industry. [Gen two X] dramatically enhances the performance and security of RAIN systems. The response from our ecosystem has been overwhelming with our top six reader partners already deploying [GEN two X] and others including prior competitors working with us to deliver clear benefits to end users.
[Gen two X] is embedded natively in our M800. So, unlocking it simply requires reader enablement [Gen two X] enables smaller more cost effective and M800 inlays for most use cases, but especially for cosmetics, accessories and food. Adding to our recurring when I see opportunity, we already have multiple enterprises piloting and using [Gen two X] with more on the way.
On the organizational front, Jeff Dossett, our Chief Revenue Officer announced his retirement after eight years at Impinj. Yes, we won't miss you but know that we will continue your mission to build peerless solutions, engineering and sales teams that leverage our platform to win July fortune 100 enterprises.
Kahan Richardson, a seven-year Impinj veteran will lead the sales organization in closing 2024 was another year of strong revenue growth and free cash flow. We delivered record adjusted EBITDA and earnings per share successfully resolved our patent litigation and delivered market leading products and innovations.
Looking forward, we see first quarter headlines, but we have been through tough times before. Each time we press our competitive advantages to emerge, a stronger company in a stronger market position.
This time, we are better positioned with a far more seasoned team than we have ever been to do so. As we continue driving our bold vision to connect every item in our everyday world. I remain confident in our market position and energized by the opportunities ahead. Before I turn the call over to Cary for our financial review and first quarter outlook. I'd like to again thank every member of the Impinj team for your constant effort. Driving our bold vision. As always, I feel honored by my incredibly good fortune to work with you. Cary?

Cary Baker

Thank you, Chris. And good afternoon, everyone. When I joined Impinj five years ago, I was drawn both to the massive opportunity and the leverage of recurring silicon revenue. 2024 offered a glimpse of what that future holds with exceptional operating margin expansion. On the back of strong revenue growth.
We delivered record annual adjusted EBITDA and record free cash flow while just scratching the surface of our market opportunity. Today, more than ever, I am in general energized by our secular demand and operating leverage potential.
Fourth quarter revenue was $91.6 million down 4%. Sequentially compared with $95.2 million in third quarter, 2024 and up 30% year-over-year from $70.7 million in fourth quarter, 2023.
Fourth quarter, end point, I see revenue $74.1 million down 9% sequentially compared with $81 million in third quarter, 2024 and up 37% year-over-year from $53.9 million in fourth quarter, 2023.
Although we typically see fourth quarter declines this year was below our expectations as we accommodated partner push off requests. Looking to the first quarter, we again expect a sequential endpoint. I see revenue decline.
Fourth quarter systems revenue was $17.5 million. Up 23% sequentially compared with $14.2 million in third quarter, 2024 and up 4% year-over-year from $16.8 million in fourth quarter, 2023 systems revenue exceeded our expectations driven by strength in reader gateway and reader, I see sales looking to the first quarter, we expect systems revenue to decline more than seasonally as the self-checkout and loss prevention deployment at the visionary European retailer concludes successfully total 2024 revenue was $366.1 million. Up 19% year-over-year compared with $307.5 million in 2023.
Endpoint, I see revenue grew 30% year over year driven by apparel, general merchandise, supply chain and logistics. The long tail of applications and licensing revenue systems revenue declined 18% year-over-year with reader and gateway declines more than offsetting growth in both test and measurement and reader ICs.
Fourth quarter, gross margin was 53.1% compared with 52.4% in third quarter, 2024 and 50.9% in fourth quarter, 2023. The year over year increase was driven by leverage on fixed costs. The quarter-over-quarter increase was driven by higher systems revenue mix and improved end point.
I see direct margins full year 2024 gross margin was 54% compared with 51.9% in 2023. With the increase due primarily to licensing revenue. Looking to first quarter, 2025 we expect gross margin to decline modestly, sequentially total.
Fourth quarter operating expense was $33.6 million compared with $32.5 million in third quarter, 2024 and $33 million in fourth quarter. 2023 research and development expense was $18 million. Sales and marketing expense was $7.8 million. General and administrative expense was $7.9 million.
2024 operating expense to $131.9 million compared with $137.8 million in 2023. We expect total first quarter, 2025 operating expense to increase sequentially driven by normal seasonal factors. Fourth quarter adjusted IDO was $15 million compared with $17.3 million in third quarter, 2024 and $3 million in fourth quarter. 2023.
Fourth quarter adjusted even on margin was 16.4%. 2024 adjusted up was $65.9 million compared with $21.8 million in 2023. 2024. Adjusted even down margin was 18%. Fourth quarter. GAAP net loss was $2.7 million. Fourth quarter, non-GAAP net income was $14.5 million or $0.48 per share on a fully diluted basis.
2024 GAAP net income was $40.8 million. 2024 non-GAAP net income was $62.9 million or $2.11 per share on a fully diluted basis.
According to the balance sheet, we ended the fourth quarter with cash equivalents and investments of $239.6 million inventory totaled $99.3 million. Up $11 million from the prior quarter. With the increase coming primarily from endpoint ICs fourth quarter. Net cash provided by operating activities was $12.6 million property and equipment purchases totaled $4.1 million. Free cash flow was $8.5 million.
For the full year net cash provided by operating activities was $128.3 million property and equipment purchases totaled $17.1 million excluding the $45 million income from the litigation settlement. Free cash flow was $66.2 million driven by revenue growth and operating margin expansion.
Before turning to our guidance, I want to highlight a few items unique to our results and outlook.
First endpoint ICs revenue will decline sequentially in the first quarter, primarily driven by volume as our channel burns through a few weeks of inventory for a much lesser degree yearly price reductions and product mix specifically M800 ramping at lower ASPS impact our first quarter outlook.
Second, we anticipate first quarter gross margin to mark the low point for the year. Second quarter, product gross margin will begin benefiting from higher M800 mix and lower cost wafers.
Third, while our January bookings exceeded our fourth quarter run rate to be prudent. We are assuming few returns at the midpoint of our revenue guidance.
According to our outlook, we expect first quarter revenue between $70million and $73 million. We expect adjusted EBITDA between $1.1 million and $2.6 million the bottom line. We expect non-GAAP net income between $1.7 million and $3.2 million reflecting non-GAAP fully delivered earnings per share between $0.06 and $0.11 in closing.
I want to thank the Impinj team, our customers, our suppliers and you our investors for your ongoing support. I will now turn the call to the operator to open the question-and-answer session. Nick?

Question and Answer Session

Operator

We will now begin the question-and-answer session to ask a question. (Operator Instructions). And your first question today will come from Blayne Curtis with Jefferies. Please go ahead.

Blayne Curtis

Hey, good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. I guess a couple, I just wanted to kind of understand the timing of which because you did kind of have a Flatter December and, you've been through these cycles before.
Did you have any kind of thoughts that this might happen back then? I'm just trying to understand the timing when things kind of flattened out. Were, were you sensing some inventory and then maybe you can talk about when did you see the bulk of these push outs kind of come to you?

Chris DiOrio

Yeah. Okay. Go ahead.

Cary Baker

So, Blayne thanks for the question. So, as it as it relates to the channel inventory builds, we built a few weeks of access channel inventory, and we believe the cause of that was a mix between demand and timing with demand being the larger factor.
From a demand perspective. Our channel inventory levels are a function of their expected demand and the b that the bit that they build ahead of that demand 90 days ago, we and our partners expected stronger demand entering 2025.
And you know, for example, the pullback we've seen with our second large North American supply chain and logistics customers was unanticipated when we guided Q4 from a timing perspective, aggressive label, price shopping and end customers, adjusting their inlay supplier mix has resulted in pockets of inventory because not all of our partners can run with the same amount of endpoint ICs inventory.
And then lastly, you're probably also see in the partners order shorter to shorter lead times and bringing down their inventory levels to match.

Blayne Curtis

Great, thanks, and then maybe you just relate this to some of the other corrections you've seen. Do you feel like you're ahead of this one anymore? Because in the past, it's taken a couple of quarters to kind of dig out. I know you said you wouldn't be the bottom.
I think the question is going to be, how fast do you recover this year? So I'm just kind of curious how you think about the shape of this correction versus other ones you've seen in the past?

Chris DiOrio

Yeah, Blayne, this is Chris, I'll say a few words and I'll say a period once it, once we jump in, when we saw, saw the correction starting in the, in the back half of the fourth quarter, we took swift action. And as I said in my prepared remarks, seen this play before. We're better seasoned. We're better positioned the time with more season team than we've ever been.
We're not calling the duration of the, of the correction that we're going to go through, but we are actively working through it. And as I said, working with our partners, to burn down their excess channel inventory and emerge in a stronger position the other side.
And I personally believe that we are in a far better position to emerge in that stronger position, given everything we have got going on in the market. [Gen two X] Enterprise Solutions and 800. We're in a strong position this time. So, expect us to accelerate out, but we're not predicting the timing right now.

Cary Baker

Yeah. Well, I'll start by just highlighting, we only guide one quarter at a time. We're not going to hazard a guess on Q2 at this point. What we see our customers ordering with very short lead times given the market uncertainty, we are prudently modeling fewer returns in our guide input.
And specifically, we're modeling zero terms for our endpoint IC business. Are there scenarios where second quarter endpoint IC product revenue recovers on a smaller channel inventory headwind. Yes, but we understand that these problems are rarely a one quarter issue.
And while we see those scenarios of a potential snapback, we're going to prepare for a larger headwind and hope for a better outcome.

Blayne Curtis

Appreciate it. Thanks.

Operator

And your next question today will come from Harsh Kumar with Piper Sandler. Please go ahead.

Harsh Kumar

Yeah. Hey guys, I wanted to ask on a similar note on the excess inventory. How many weeks of excess inventory do you think you have? And is it spread out over a bunch of different areas or mostly concentrated in one or two sort of in the partners or industries?
However, you want to categorize it. But the main question is how many weeks do you think you have?

Cary Baker

Hey, harsh. This is Cary. I think it's a few weeks. It's more concentrated than is typical. A lot of it relates to logistics, given the change in demand we see from our second large logistics provider.

Harsh Kumar

Okay, great. So, my second question was on that is, were you talking about the change in demand? Are you referring to the Amazon deal with UPS which is now public where the volumes will decline? Is that, is that the large function that you are referring to at up at your second largest customer?

Cary Baker

Well, harsh, we don't name specific customers, but you know, if you've been following the news, there's been changes in logistics demand.

Chris DiOrio

Yeah, and Harsh there's another element as well. There's been some share allocations as well. So, our inlay partners built ahead assuming a certain portion of share, it was a share reallocation which on top of that, a bit of a push out has resulted in some channel inventory.
And that's, that's the, that's the bulk of the channel inventory that we need to. Correct. Not all of it but the bulk of it.

Harsh Kumar

Got it. Okay. I'll get back in two guys. Thank you.

Chris DiOrio

Sure. Thank you.

Operator

(Operator Instructions) and your next question today will come from Jim Ricchiuti, Needham & Co with Needham and company, please go ahead.

Jim Ricchiuti

I think. So, you alluded to the fact that you're not really seeing large program ramps and, and obviously that, that that impacts the first half of the year. And I'm just wondering, and again, I know you can't give guidance beyond the quarter, but when would you or maybe you could just characterize what you see in the pipeline in terms of program ramps that potentially has, could have some impact further out in the year.

Chris DiOrio

So Jim, we see a strong enterprise pipeline. I cited two food opportunities in our prepared remarks. There are other opportunities in our pipeline. From an overall enterprise perspective, we see good tailwinds for our industry.
We saw strong RAIN label growth last year. And as we see those new opportunities layer in, we expect strong growth in the future, but they'll just, we're in a bit of a dull right now with no new fortune 100 company companies really jumping into the market at least in the first half.
And, and if there is movement in the second half, it'll be just the beginnings of the land. So just to put it, put it all in a nutshells, strong enterprise pipeline. A lot of interest happens to be a low right now.

Jim Ricchiuti

Yeah, and Chris with respect to the customers that are working in the grocery vertical. Obviously, it's been public CAGR doing something. Can you say whether the second grocery is a US based grocer or is it a European grocery?

Chris DiOrio

Jim. Of course, we know, I think for competitive reasons, we prefer not to give an answer to that question right now. But it is a large opportunity. And it's one that we've decided to work directly with that enterprise end user because of the potential built into it.

Jim Ricchiuti

Thank you.

Chris DiOrio

I'm sorry, I can't answer directly.

Jim Ricchiuti

Fair enough.

Chris DiOrio

Okay, thank you, Jim.

Operator

And your next question today will come from Troy Jensen with Cantor Fitzgerald. Please go ahead.

Troy Jensen

Hey, gentlemen, thanks for taking my question. Maybe a couple here for, for charity. You guys talked about. Aggressive endpoint price shopping. Can you just kind of talk to us. About what is the ASP reductions. Or just any more insight into that?

Cary Baker

Yeah. So, when we think of endpoint IC from kind of our pricing impact, which I think is where you're going on your question, Troy, I would say given the current market dynamics, the negotiations came in line largely with our expectations. Our focus in this year's negotiations was driving the M800 adoption.
As you know, the M800 is a lower price skew. So, we can expect average ASP's to come down as the M800 ramps as a percentage of our mix, the tradeoff. However, is from, comes from the gross margin line where we expect accretion as the lower cost M800 ramps into our volume running skew.

Chris DiOrio

And -- I'll say a little bit more in terms of aggressive label price shopping. There's a bit of bonding over capacity out in the market right now. And so, there's a fairly competitive market dynamic at the label level.
And so we're seeing end users price shop aggressively, service bureaus, price, shop aggressively. And that aggressive price shopping has resulted in delayed orders to us.

Troy Jensen

Got you. Alright, understood. And then in conjunction with that just carry talked about gross margins being down modestly in Q1. Could you just frame what modestly means?

Cary Baker

Yeah, I think maybe let's talk about the impact that we'll see to, gross margin. I did say modestly, it'll mark the low point for the year and we'll begin benefiting as we move forward from the M800 mix and lower cost waiver flowing through.
Now, when you deconstruct the guide and you have the top and the bottom line, you can back into roughly what you might think the gross margin will be. But I think the, I think the key point is to understand that it'll build throughout the year as we ramp the M800 as we get to those lower cost.

Chris DiOrio

Way first All right. Understood. Good luck guys.

Operator

Thank you, Troy. And your next question today will come from Christopher Roland with Susquehanna. Please go ahead.

Christopher Rolland

Hey, thanks for the question. Yeah, just a follow up. I guess first of all on the price shopping comment, I just understand that. Is that pricing between you and your IC competitor? Help me understand that a little bit more. And then, Chris, I think you also mentioned an aggressive low.
Is there a lower margin inlay guy out there? I just sorry, he help me understand the pricing dynamic here that that you were talking about.

Chris DiOrio

So, Chris, thanks for the question. So, the label price shopping is twofold. It's from the enter from the enterprise end users to the service bureaus and that's from the service bureaus to the bonders people who actually take our IC's and put them on a list because there's some excess bonding capacity in the market and it's pretty competitive market right now.
There's a lot of, but there's a lot of price shopping around that which has resulted in the delayed orders to us. So, I was referring to the price shopping. It is from our customer. It is between our customer and our customer's customer, our customer's customer, which is the enterprise end user.
Does that help?

Christopher Rolland

That does help thank you, for that, that clarity and then I know you guys only guide one quarter at a time but any, any broad thoughts as to, how this inventory dynamic may impact seasonality. Is there going to be any seasonality going forward or do we flat line off this base? just any broad thoughts.
Not, nothing specific I think would be appreciated by all of us.

Cary Baker

Yeah, it, so, we only guide one quarter of time and I really don't want to hazard a guess on the second quarter right now. You know, some of the factors that we're seeing going into our guide. First, our January bookings were strong, they exceeded our fourth quarter run rate.
And that January strength includes endpoint IC terms orders, but to be prudent, we're assuming few returns at the guide at the midpoint of our guide and specifically zero turns on our end point. I see business. We just want to be give ourselves some time to get our arms around the situation.
We're working hard to clear out the channel inventory, but we know that can take some time. So that's really how we're thinking about it right now and, and we'll provide more update as we go.

Chris DiOrio

If there's one word, I'd like you to take away. It's just prudent. That's the word that, Troy used and that's, a word that we're, all behind that word and that's where we stand right now. Just we're being prudent as we look forward.

Christopher Rolland

Okay, thank you very much guys.

Cary Baker

Thank you.

Operator

And your next question today will come from Scott Searle with Roth Capital. Please go ahead.

Scott Searle

Hey, good afternoon. Thanks for taking the questions. Hey, Chris, maybe, just given the near-term inventory headwinds. I'm wondering if you could talk about the dynamic of the longer-term growth in the marketplace, right?
You consistently talked about the historic end point. I see unit growth of 25% to 30%. Is that demand profile changing at all when you're looking at 2025 or is that still tracking? We're just working through a near term inventory issue.

Chris DiOrio

You know, Scott, I wish I could answer that question for you. We'll have a better read on it a little bit through the year. What we see right now is, is essentially like I said in our prepared remarks, we see strength in North America, kind of driven a little bit across the board, retail, apparel, retail, general merchandise, and supply chain and logistics as well as new opportunities and then the growing food opportunities.
So North America we see is still solid and it's, and it's still going forward. The EU is flattish, at least from our current perspective. And we don't usually call out Asia and that's smaller anyway. So, it's hard for me to project what those factors mean for 2025 overall.
In the longer term, we see long term secular tail ones underlying our, industry, the food opportunity layering on at least in it. You know, if we see some, some ramps heading into 2026 on top of other things that are going on suggest that, we, that the future is very bright and we fundamentally believe it's very bright.
I just can't hazard a guess right now on 2025 especially given the geopolitical dynamic, the tariff situation, all those other things and I wish I could give you a better answer. But as of right now, I can't.

Scott Searle

Hey Chris just clarification the tariff issue when you say geopolitical is that because customers were pre buying and pre shipping ahead of any sort of the tariff situation or is there some other dynamic going on there? And then if I could finally just wrap up with the pipeline, it sounds like the pipeline is still pretty active.
I was wondering if you could expand beyond food. I think you've addressed that a couple of times. But with your, your large North American retail or general merchandise, I think they were moving to the phase three things like that are progressing on that front and leveraging that existing customers supply channel or supply chain, right?
I think you were talking about other big box retailers starting to pull forward. Has that dynamic changed at all or some of those opportunities still existing in '25? Thanks.

Chris DiOrio

Yeah. Okay. I'll do my best on those questions. In terms of the geopolitical situation, it was a, it was less of a pull forward and less of, I'm going to use the word sourcing, uncertainty and the sourcing uncertainty being primarily if you're, a supplier to an enterprise, you need to know where to source out based on what the tariff situation is.
So, we're seeing, we're seeing some delayed orders just for sourcing decisions based on where the tariffs might hit. And that is resulting in short, short, short of order cycles and, and essentially causing at least from our perspective where we are right now the way orders to us as those decisions get made in terms of the pipeline.
We have ongoing efforts with our lead customers, our lead enterprise and users in the retail apparel space, we still see significant opportunities there and we'll be expanding some of the engagements in the retail apparel space.
Because as I mentioned in the prepared remarks, some of the things our partners are doing around loss prevention and self-checkout around overhead reading, could open up a new wave of opportunities in retail. On top of that obviously, there's further expansion in retail, general merchandise, second large North American supply chain and logistics end user with some spillover to other big box retailers.
We're taking advantage of some of the tag categories. And then the third thing, big thing we're looking at is the enterprise mobile transitioning into consumer mobile. The date for the enterprise mobile is not yet announced yet, but you know, we're obviously talking about it.
All of us are talking about it. The date for a transition to consumer mobile is further out in time, that's still you know, a guarded expectation our part. But we're going to do everything we can to drive that consumer opportunity, which will truly change the dynamics in the industry. So, it's all of the things. We just basically point a picture to a bright future, but right now, we got a little bit of a rough patch to go through.

Scott Searle

Great. Thanks so much.

Chris DiOrio

Sure. Thank you.

Operator

And your next question today is a follow up from Harsh Kumar of Piper Sandler. Please go ahead.

Harsh Kumar

Yeah. Hey guys. So, I wanted to ask you about this the new customer that the grocery level, could you at least I know you don't want to give us a name.
Could you tell us if it's a large customer or a smaller boutique type grocery chain? And then the other part two of the question is if you're going to be having one of these guys ramp in a meaningful way in the in 2026 would you not start to see some volumes, perhaps in 2025 maybe second half with your partners.

Chris DiOrio

Yeah. So harsh. I'll take that one. The answer to the first part of the question is large customer. Although, any time you talk to large. So, we're actually, but to be specific, it's in grocery, it's not in a fast food or other kind of things. So, it is grocery at the item level.
And then the time frame, because you know, when you think about the size of the opportunities, the opportunities are so large, the larger an opportunity is the more measured the pace you just have to accept that we anticipate some and when I see volumes in the back half of the year, obviously a lot depends on the pace at which the customers go and things like that.
We expect some volumes, some volumes at the in the back half of the year. And ideally one or both of those will ramp into 2026. Now that said the one that we're not citing right now since it is a self-checkout opportunity, we have a lot of work to do to get it fully up and running and working.
So, we're early days and then the same way as it took us some time to do the self-checkout and loss prevention opportunity with the visionary European retailer, we really need to roll up our sleeves and get this one working for this particular grocer.
It's not a loss prevention opportunity at self-checkout, but self-checkout at item level grocery, it's going to take some work on our side. I believe we're the best company to do it. We're best positioned to do it. And if anybody can do it, we can, we're going to give it our best shot and I believe we will make it go, but I can't give you the timing yet.

Harsh Kumar

Understood. Thank you. Thank you, Chris, for that color.

Chris DiOrio

Sure. Thank you. Harsh.

Operator

That concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Chris Diorio, co-founder and CEO for any closing remarks.

Chris DiOrio

Thank you, Nick and I'd like to thank all of you for joining the call today. Thank you for your ongoing support. Bye-bye.